Introduction

THOMAS: There are all sorts of motivations behind podcasting.

CHERYL: A chance to share ideas and opinions. Brand yourself as an expert in a given field.

THOMAS: For AJ Murray, host and producer of ACTing Up With AJ & Crew, it also includes more.

AJ: It would be my absolute dream for my podcast to be a job and a job that is sustaining. I can’t wait for my job to be to entertain and inform. I can’t wait for that day ‘cause it’s really hard trying to string together five and six jobs.

CHERYL: Whatever the reason or goal for producing your podcast, the fact is, there are financial costs. Production expenses like equipment and annual service provider fees are the most obvious, but time and energy are also an expense.

THOMAS: So it’s worth talking about ways to generate funds to, at the very least, cover the financial cost of production. Making money from your podcast doesn’t mean you have to consider it a full-time venture.

MAYA: I kind of go back and forth about this. I think in the beginning, I was like, oh, this would be so cool to do full time ‘cause I love doing it, and it doesn’t feel like work. But I really like my full-time job. So, let’s just keep things as they are because I can manage both.

CHERYL: But then Maya Chupkov, host of Proud Stutter, had a brief period where she really focused on the podcast full time and learned a valuable lesson for herself.

MAYA: It was great, but then I realized how all-consuming it can be. And if I’m just doing Proud Stutter all the time, I just feel it kind of takes away from the magic of it that I’m doing this because I care and not because it’s my full-time thing. So, I kind of like having two different projects that I’m working on that I really care about. And although I love stuttering and I love the work, it’s really nice to kind of get out of that and focus on something that I’m passionate about outside of stuttering.

I think what I’m starting to realize is I do want to strengthen Proud Stutter and take the show to the next level in terms of having it be more narrative and story based rather than just interviews, and trying to get resources where I can hire people to help me so I can balance both, and I can not feel so busy all the time.

THOMAS: Hiring people to help produce the podcast and ultimately free up more of your time, that’s a real benefit of funding your podcast.

CHERYL: That can go a long way to assure that you keep that excitement about your podcast, as Maxwell Joy Moore of Power Not Pity shared with us.

MAXWELL: When I was producing, I would wake up in the mornings and feel like, yeah, I’m ready to do this interview. When I would be finished with the interview, I would feel like I’m flying on cloud nine. I am the podcast, and the podcast is me.

THOMAS: And when you feel that connected to something you’re creating, well, you just can’t minimize the value of that feeling.

THOMAS: Welcome to POD Ask Us.

CHERYL: Isn’t it POD Access?

THOMAS: Can’t it be both?

CHERYL: Connecting d/Deaf and disabled podcasters to audiences and each other.

THOMAS: Ba-dum-dum bap-bah-dum.

CHERYL: [happy giggle]

Stats and analytics

THOMAS: I feel like I should apologize up front.

CHERYL: Apologize? Why?

THOMAS: I know everyone is ready to get to the money conversation, but we first have to talk about statistics.

CHERYL: Oh! Yes, we apologize! But if our group of d/Deaf and disabled podcasters are a representative sample of the community, there’s a wide range of thought around stats.

AJ: Right now we’re just trying to focus on the quality and putting out the content. Stats are important to me. It’s only important if we have viewership, or if people are listening to my podcast. Then that means we could have a community. I wanna have community engagement.

THOMAS: So a goal for AJ is community. Sounds worthwhile to me.

KEITH: What we’re concerned about is the quality of the content, the accuracy. And we understand the communities we are tapping into because we’ve done the work on the ground.  So in terms of hard numbers, did we get a million views this month? We don’t really focus on that. What we do focus on is the feedback. Did we address the topic the way people can embrace it, whether they agree with it or not? Did we do the diligent research to make sure that everything stated is accurate and then let it live organically. So, we understand that it may take two months or four months before somebody finds a podcast, but usually once they find it, they’ll tell somebody else. They’ll tell somebody else. Numbers tend to get people thinking differently about the content versus the integrity of the content.

CHERYL: That was Keith Jones from Black Disabled Men Talk. And for Maxwell, it’s more about improving the craft.

MAXWELL: Yeah, definitely. I’ve sat through multiple workshops about how to monetize and what signifies this in the podcasting industry. I do pay attention to statistics of my show because I think it’s important for us to be counted and a part of those statistics and diversifying those statistics. Most of the time, I want my competition to be me.

THOMAS: While Qudsiya from Down to the Struts sees impact as a goal.

QUDSIYA: We analyze stats at the end of every season, and we’re never quite sure how accurate things are. It’s not the most important to me. The most important to me is real-world impact. Once I got to speak in front of the California School for the Blind. Having people email me, which has happened a few times, where people are like, I listened to this, and it really had this impact on me, or it really helped me feel comfortable in my disability identity. Or from a non-disabled person, I listened to your podcast, and I changed x, y, z about how I do things, that is the real impact to me. That’s really what I made the podcast to do. 

MAYA: I have phases where I’m, like, constantly looking at my stats, and then I have phases where I just maybe check it once a week. Stats aren’t really that important to me. It’s always nice to get to a milestone: the 1,000 and then the 10,000, and then 20. Those are always fun, but I just feel like I don’t really know what the stats mean. I probably should look at my stats more and try to figure out where there were spikes. I kind of did that for a little bit, but I just don’t have the time. It’s something that I wanna hire someone to do eventually.

CHERYL: Maya, from Proud Stutter, obviously recognizes some value in the stats. Antoine Hunter of Deaf Woke points out some other ways to extract information from the stats.

ANTOINE: The numbers tell me how much work I’m doing to reach out to many people. It tells me what our community and audience are more interested in, how much I need to promote, or how sooner or how much further. Sometimes for some things in the community, it’s better to promote three days closer than a month before. Yeah, it’s just some people forget about it a month later.

When I look at the numbers, I see how many men, women, them/they, the ages and things. That helps me guide me to where I bring the audience who they would love to see. There’s people who are watching outside of USA. And that’s wow for me. Some people from Africa can watch the platform or UK or Columbia, Canada.

THOMAS: We heard some great motivation for podcasting, along with some of the ways statistics can assist. Ultimately, when it comes to statistics, Kennedy from Crip Crap probably sums it up for most people.

KENNEDY: We’d love to know more about how we could be using numbers. 

CHERYL: Whether your podcast is a passion project, side hustle, or a full-time venture, there’s a way to use statistics to aid in your goal.

THOMAS: Even if your goal is community building, increasing the integrity of your content, or improving your own skills.

CHERYL: If you’re considering ways to generate funds, you are going to need to know more about your audience.

THOMAS: Who makes up your audience? Where are they located geographically? How long do they listen to your podcast? How are they accessing your content? What are the demographics, the age, gender?

CHERYL: Some of these questions can be answered through statistics. How you access these stats depends on your podcast host.

THOMAS: Most hosting services offer access to varying levels of stats based on their packaged tiers. Other metrics such as specific demographic information will require additional research. This is often accomplished by asking audience members to complete a survey. [chill, pulsating ambient music break]

Types of Funding

CHERYL: It’s probably worth noting that neither one of us directly makes money from our podcasts.

THOMAS: I think that actually makes us more suited to discuss this topic in the context of d/Deaf and disabled podcasting.

CHERYL: That’s not to say that there aren’t people in this community making money from their efforts. Rather, it’s to be real and not approach this like an infomercial or some “influencer” telling you, “You can do it just by following these three simple steps!”

THOMAS: We wanna be encouraging, but real. So let’s dive into the various means of funding a podcast. [driving techno music break]

Advertising

THOMAS: One of the first sources considered for funding a podcast is advertising. It’s what we’re used to in media.

CHERYL: Makes sense. Television, radio, and newspapers all exist on advertising.

THOMAS: There are multiple types of advertisements, and some are probably more suited for certain types of podcasts.

CHERYL: There’s the ads or spot ads we’re very used to.

THOMAS: A 30 or 60-second insert that’s produced by the company looking to sell their product or service. It describes their product or service, gives details on how to purchase and why, and that’s it!

CHERYL: Sounds a lot like what we talked about in the episode on producing a promo for your podcast.

THOMAS: Exactly! Another form of advertising on podcasts is the host read ad. Instead of pre-producing a 30 to 60-second promotion, the advertiser and podcaster agree on some copy, and the host reads it in their own voice.

CHERYL: Often, the host has a personal connection to the brand and makes that known to their audience. The host may even share some of their personal stories about the brand.

THOMAS: The idea here is that the personal connection between the host and the brand, as well as the host and their audience, makes it less of a sell and more like a strong recommendation.

CHERYL: It’s perfect for podcasters with strong relationships with their audience or community.

THOMAS: For these two specific methods of advertising, spot ads and host reads, pricing is similar to that in other mediums.

CHERYL: CPM or Cost Per Mil or Thousand downloads. So, if a podcast has 20,000 downloads, at a $50 CPM, that ad costs $1,000.

THOMAS: I know what you’re thinking.

KENNEDY: I think we might need like a bit of a bigger audience than we have now.

THOMAS: Don’t worry, Kennedy, Crip Crap isn’t alone in this category. Podcast episodes with 20,000 downloads within 30 days of its release accounts for the top 2% of all podcasts.

CHERYL: Oof. According to Libsyn, if you’re getting more than 145 downloads, you’re in the top 50% of podcasts. 1,200 downloads, you’re in the top 20%.

THOMAS: Other forms of advertising include sponsored segments or even full episodes where the company’s brand is directly integrated with the content. It’s often transparent, but the vibe is less like a promo and more like that found in the podcast segments or episodes.

CHERYL: It’s sort of combining that trust factor found in the host read with the information included in the promos but extended and with a much different vibe.

THOMAS: So, we can talk more about advertising, but chances are, the majority of us indie podcasters won’t accumulate the number of downloads necessary to make advertising appealing to companies.

CHERYL: Plus, as many of the podcasters we’ve interviewed suggest, there’s often a larger goal to consider. Antoine Hunter, the host of Deaf Woke gives some real food for thought on what to consider when accepting ad dollars.

ANTOINE: I would love for anyone to advertise or to promote us. For who believe in what we doing, definitely. Sure. I’m like, yes, represent us and promote us and support us. But if it’s about tokenism, not even for $1,000,000, I won’t do it. I don’t wanna hurt my community. I asked someone, “Which one would you pick? $500 for a toxic space or $200, $300 for a peaceful space, for your mind, for your health and everything. Which one?” Someone was, like, you know, “‘$500, $1,000, I’m down!’” you know? And I said I can’t do that because…even if I get that much money, I’m gonna use all that money to heal my mental health, you know, to heal myself. So, I can’t enjoy it, because I’m busy healing from that. Mmhmm. So, I’m gonna take the 200. [big belly laugh]

[techno music break]

Grants

MAXWELL: I would love to have as much money behind Power Not Pity as possible, y’all. I don’t only wanna document community, I wanna cultivate community. I want us to thrive. Unfortunately, under evil, capitalist, transphobic, all the isms, amidst that whole world, we have to have money to survive. I want that to be possible for people to thrive. I’m actively very open to finding scholarships or grants. These are things that I’ve gotten in the past and continue to get because I not only do this podcast, I also facilitate workshops, and I also do presentations.

CHERYL: Yeah, like Maxwell said: d/Deaf and disabled podcasters, like others, deserve to not only survive, but thrive. It takes money to do that.

THOMAS: Which is why it’s important to find ways to support our podcasting efforts. Maxwell named a few, including grants and side hustles, that can result from your podcast.

CHERYL: Let’s start with grants or free funding, often provided by foundations, organizations, or government entities to applicants who create something within a focused area.

THOMAS: In most cases grant providers are offering financial support, but some offer support through mentoring, education, and other resources.

CHERYL: Grants are not loans and don’t have to be paid back. They range from micro grants of a couple hundred dollars to much larger financial support. In either case, this support may be considered income and taxed accordingly.

THOMAS: Acquiring grants can be as easy as a simple form to a more intensive application process. Most grants have very specific eligibility requirements, such as the type of content you create, where you live, and citizenship status.

CHERYL: Some grants require a fee with their applications. In most cases, grant providers have strict deadlines for applications, so it’s important to be aware of all requirements for applying and any other responsibilities that come with the funding.

THOMAS: Maya from Proud Stutter lets us know you don’t have to have a non-profit 501(c)(3) organization to receive grant funding.

MAYA: Proud Stutter is fiscally sponsored by Independent Arts and Media. What that means is I can apply to grants. And technically, I’m like a project of a non-profit, so I just call myself a non-profit. Eventually I do wanna make Proud Stutter its own 501(c)(3).

I’ve been working in non-profits for a while, so I kind of always knew fiscal sponsorship was a thing. I just Googled one day, “fiscal sponsors, San Francisco, podcast,” and Independent Arts and Media was one of the first websites that came up. I think I was really lucky in that way. Independent Arts and Media just so happens to be in the same city as me. They just so happen to already have a lot of podcasts under their fiscal sponsorship. So, I applied, and it was a pretty easy process.

What being fiscally sponsored means is that you can apply to foundations. You could get donations that are tax deductible. My fiscal sponsor, they do all the overhead. They kind of make sure that all the necessary paperwork is done, and they also provide a certain number of hours for different coaching services. For example, I hired a grants coach to help me apply to like two grants. They paid for that. And now I’m going through a different thing where I’m hiring a coach to help me set up my financial systems. It’s been so amazing because I’ve really been able to learn all this stuff for free.

CHERYL: Sounds like fiscal sponsorship may really be worth investigating, especially if you wanna focus on the production and other aspects of creating your podcast.

THOMAS: For the assistance in managing all of that administrative and tax stuff, the fiscal sponsor gets a percentage of the grant money. A pretty fair tradeoff, especially if you’re not familiar with managing the aspects of a non-profit.

CHERYL: Check out PODAccess.net for more resources on grants. [techno music break]

Grassroots, Patreon, GoFundMe, Tips

THOMAS: How about direct support from your audience as a source for funding?

CHERYL: You know, this isn’t a new concept. If you’re familiar with public television or radio, you’ve experienced a community support or membership drive.

THOMAS: Today we call that crowdfunding. It’s a way to raise money from those who truly feel a connection to your work and demonstrate that through financial support. This includes direct donations or offering tiered membership plans that provide perks or rewards based on a specified level of support.

CHERYL: Like tote bags!

THOMAS: Yeah.

CHERYL: Successful crowdfunding campaigns take some real planning and work implementing. From figuring out the right platform, creating marketing materials and support tiers, to distributing perks or rewards.

THOMAS: Platforms like: Kickstarter, Indiegogo, GoFundMe, Patreon.

MAXWELL: So, I set up this Patreon to offer people extended content, hidden content, new content, because I figured people are really latching onto this, so why not be even better of a advocate for community by offering more? See, the secret about Patreon is that you have to know how to repurpose your content! And that is a skill that I have yet to master ‘cause I love just doing new things! I don’t think about the old things and how awesome the old things are and can still be for someone who’s new to the show.

THOMAS: While some supporters aren’t necessarily seeking new content, others are very much attracted to supporting via Patreon because of the perks and extras. That could be early access, extra content, having their names included in the credits. Kennedy sums it up.

KENNEDY: If enough people will give $1 to $10 a month, a certain amount of that kind of support would be enough to get the next year to a new level. So, that’s what we’re hoping for.

CHERYL: In exchange for providing you with a platform to raise money for your project, crowdfunding sites charge a platform fee, a transaction fee, a payment processing fee, or some combination.

THOMAS: Check out PODAccess.net for more resources on crowdfunding. [techno music break]

CHERYL: Sponsorships or advertising, grants, and crowdfunding aren’t the only ways to raise funds to help you produce your podcast.

THOMAS: We’ve spoken with podcasters who found a way to make podcasting a part of their pre-existing nine-to-five job responsibilities.

CHERYL: That means the expenses are covered by their employer, plus they can use their work hours to get it done.

REBECCA: There’s a lot that goes into this show, and it’s a lot more than just me. I am extremely fortunate to have a lot of support, and so I know what it looks like to be doing it on a shoestring. And I also know what it feels like to be doing it with a team.

THOMAS: Rebecca Vallas of the podcast formerly known as Off-Kilter, and now titled It Doesn’t Have to Be This Way, does a fair amount of work on her own executive producing the podcast: finding guests, hosting, and setting the course. But she does get the support of her employer that includes access to an editor, producers, and a communications team.

REBECCA: And then he sends the show file in to the rest of the team. At The Century Foundation where I’m a senior fellow these days and where I have the good fortune of getting to produce this podcast as part of an organization’s larger work and mission. That means I get to benefit from the editorial team and the communications team and the production team, which includes designated people, each of whom has as part of their job, part of their full-time job working at The Century Foundation includes supporting Off-Kilter’s production every week when it’s in season. It includes a person who actually pulls all of the written content together and posts it online. And it includes another person who actually helps to get everything put out into the RSS feed through Libsyn. And then it includes another person who, because they’re on our communications team, does social media marketing. I wanna be clear, it’s not a full-time job for any of those people. It’s like a 5% or 10% of their time thing at most to contribute to the show.

CHERYL: That amount of support can be the difference between a sustainable podcast and one that eventually fades away.

THOMAS: Obviously, the theme of your podcast will have to align with your job responsibility.

CHERYL: There are some things to consider before approaching your employer with the idea.

THOMAS: Yes! Like, who owns and controls the direction of the podcast? Is the company or organization essentially just agreeing to sponsor the podcast through the support?

CHERYL: What happens when you wanna change employers? Who holds the right to the existing content?

Access to new streams from podcast

THOMAS: We talked about other benefits that can arise as a result from podcasting, like paid writing, consulting, public speaking gigs. This can be a way for some to financially support their podcasts.

CHERYL: It may seem like extra work, but for some people, getting the podcast out is that important.

THOMAS: But it’s also nice to not have to lose money, especially when you factor in all of the time that goes into producing a podcast.

Wrap-up

CHERYL: Whatever your motivation is for doing the podcast, have you found a way to make it financially sustainable?

THOMAS: Let us know! Go to PODAccess.net and hit the Contact Us button.

CHERYL: And you can upload a voice memo or write a message.

THOMAS: And you might just hear it,

CHERYL: read it,

THOMAS: or see it in a future episode of the podcast or on social media.

CHERYL: Tell a friend and an enemy to follow or subscribe to POD Access wherever you get your podcasts and on Instagram @ThePODAccess. That’s @ T H E P O D A C C E S S.

THOMAS: PODAccess.net.

CHERYL: Meow.